Posts by Muddy Waters

18

Governing Body Members Appointed By Jesus Christ And Not Men?

by frankiespeakin in

this is an unfounded delusion or lie either one take your pick.

blondie quoted this on another post and i'm pasting it here.:.

*** w01 4/15 p. 29 do you remember?

Muddy Waters

It amazes me now to think of all the Bible verses I used to believe and QUOTE, without even "hearing" them...

Examples:

"Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs...." - Psalm 146:3

"We must obey God as ruler rather than men." - Acts 10

"Cursed is the able-bodied man who puts his trust in earthling man..." - Jer. 17:5

"I well know... that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." - Jer. 10:23

"The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate." - Jer. 17:9

"... man has dominated man to his injury." - Ecc. 8:9

"There is no salvation is anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved." - Act. 4:12

2

The FDS and its original "Jezebel" influence...

by Muddy Waters in

i've done so much reading and research these past couple of years, it's sometimes difficult to remember from where i heard what.. .

but it seems that in one of the books i read (coc maybe?

), it was mentioned that maria russell, charles russell's wife, used to write articles for his new magazine.

Ah ha! Thanks to a wonderful person on another forum, I found the source to this information! It is from the book, Apocalypse Delayed, by James Petton, on pp. 33-34!!
Will post some excerpts from that in a little while, have some reading to do!

2

The FDS and its original "Jezebel" influence...

by Muddy Waters in

i've done so much reading and research these past couple of years, it's sometimes difficult to remember from where i heard what.. .

but it seems that in one of the books i read (coc maybe?

), it was mentioned that maria russell, charles russell's wife, used to write articles for his new magazine.

Muddy Waters

I've done so much reading and research these past couple of years, it's sometimes difficult to remember from where I heard what.

But it seems that in one of the books I read (CoC maybe?), it was mentioned that Maria Russell, Charles Russell's wife, used to write articles for his new magazine. This is way back when and before he decided she was getting too big for her britches. Or something like that. However, this person/author said it was SHE who decided that Russell was the "faithful and discrete slave"! It was SHE who originally interpreted this parable into a whole prophecy.

So... if we apply this knowlege (so sorry, I wish I remembered the exact source where I read this! Perhaps somebody here knows to what book or author I am referring?) -- then it means that the whole FDS/GB is following a teaching that was first explained and taught and promulgated by a WOMAN, yes, a LOWLY FEMALE!! (I picture the GB as a group of greedy, grasping Ferengi now, lol!) but in their mysognyistic way they can apply this parable-turned-prophecy totally to themselves and especially to MEN ONLY.

It's very amusing to me to think of this. Would really appreciate if somebody did know or could point out the source for this... thank you! :)

23

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!!!!

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

that's how i feel when i see these crazy new wt study articles and the inane reasoning contained therein, and the indoctrination machines of meetings run by all those little hardened human cogs and the unending stream of propaganda we're pitched up against.

.. you could spend all your time working through those wt articles (see cedar's post on the latest 'new light') and refuting the stupidity, and yet most witnesses aren't even concerned with changes to the fds or 144 000 because like all of humanity they're too busy trying to scratch a living as it is.

such airy doctrine changes don't have any effect on their day to day lives and is thus irrelevant.

Muddy Waters

(Ha. Just realized there's one thing the ministry school was good for -- teaching us how to use illustrations!)

I am now trying to reach a point of not just seeing the ick and blah and bad and power games and control and judgment and duplicity from the Organization/WTBTS, but also how being a JW developed positive qualities in me, as well. There are positive things to take away from it, too. :)

23

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!!!!

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

that's how i feel when i see these crazy new wt study articles and the inane reasoning contained therein, and the indoctrination machines of meetings run by all those little hardened human cogs and the unending stream of propaganda we're pitched up against.

.. you could spend all your time working through those wt articles (see cedar's post on the latest 'new light') and refuting the stupidity, and yet most witnesses aren't even concerned with changes to the fds or 144 000 because like all of humanity they're too busy trying to scratch a living as it is.

such airy doctrine changes don't have any effect on their day to day lives and is thus irrelevant.

Muddy Waters

Julia, you have a beatiful way of expressing yourself, very poetic, very vibrant, very picturesque... even through your pain and anguish you convey humor, wisdom, strength... with frustration, angst, yes, but you are GETTING THROUGH THIS. I *love* the advice Gingerbread said, and wholeheartedly agree!

Take your time, breathe, read, relax, research, breath & relax some more.... this is a PROCESS, a whole new journey with whole new thoughts ready to be opened up... you will feel reborn... It's almost like the guy in 2001: A Space Odyssey... he became newly born at the end of the story but then had no idea what to do with himself! But, "he would think of something." That's the way the book ends. Yet it is really a beginning.

Anyway, you are not alone with this! There are days where I wonder just who the heck I am now and what am I going to do now, and then I realize.... it's a JOURNEY! I'm on a road trip with an open road, wind in my hair, as many detours as I want (or need), or as many straight roads as I wish... (meaning, just keep plugging on, day after day and take things slow!) and every now and again I pull over and stop, take a look around, and realize I've come a long way. :)

211

New light Watchtower magazine leaked from organization weeks ahead of general release

by cedars in

http://jwsurvey.org/governing-body-2/new-light-watchtower-magazine-leaked-from-organization-weeks-ahead-of-general-release.

if doctrinal explanations are missing from the article, it is because they are also missing from the magazine.. i would like to give my thanks again to my source for supplying me with the magazine article weeks ahead of its scheduled release.

it showed remarkable courage, because risks were taken.

Muddy Waters

I must be particularly dense, because I just can't get my head around all of this. I start getting soooooo confused.

Is there a way to explain this "for dummies"...? I appreciate your article, Cedars, and the chart (very helpful, but still confusing as heck to me!) I also appreciate all the comments here, because it does help explain (or muddy the waters more, lol) but my brain seems to have difficulty processing this "new light". I know some of you will say, "You can't understand it because it doesn't make any sense!" but it must make sense to *someone* (especially the GB dudes)... so how the heck/what the heck... how in the world does it all compute...?

I'll start by sharing the understanding I presently have (about the "old light)...

- that there has always been a FDS class since 33 CE, but they were unknown to most people, we just had to trust that they were there through all the centures (Tyndale, etc.)
- that Jesus took Kingdom power in 1914 (whatever the heck that means now) and his first act was tossing Satan out of heaven, leading to WW1

- that Jesus approved the IBS being the only true religion, yet they needed a cleansing period (when all the heavy dudes, Rutherford, et all, were tossed into prison for four years) because they still taught false doctrines (which weren't even changed till decades later, and which continue to undergo "refinement"!) Uh huh. Riiiight. This was said to be cleansing the temple or whatever.

Gah, even the "old teaching" makes my brain hurt. Just so much weirdness and date-setting and bunch of bunk!!! Bah!!! *grrrrr!!* I really do NOT like going into that JW headspace to try to figure out what the heck they're saying now.

But really, is there a dummie version of the new light and its significance....? I appreciate anyone trying their best to explain these non-sensical things.
Try to imagine that you're talking to a child, lol.

69

Do You Believe In ANYTHING That The Witnesses Taught At This Point In Your Life?

by minimus in

jw
friends

for example, they pride themselves in what they don't believe such as immortal souls, the trinity, hellfire, etc.. some exjws still believe it is the "truth" and support the basics.. .

Muddy Waters

FROM DATA-DOG (above) -- "The Trinity, or tri-unity makes sense from a Quantum mechanical/entanglement standpoint. The Father, the source of Holy Spirit, created the Son from his own self/essence. As humans we need the male and female to create life, not so with the Father because he is all things.
So the Son is the Father because they are entangled, yet they are individuals. We are all one since the Universe came from one source. We are all from the same first cause/Big Bang, call it what you want. We are all entangled. The Son made all things, perhaps from his own essence. That may be why we can be said to be one with him, and he can dwell in us and we come to the Father through him. We are made in God's image.
We have the power to create even though we do not realize it. It's the law of attraction. We alter our reality just by observing it. Our thoughts can actually change our reality.

As for the original question, I believe the truth in God's word. Witnesses may speak some truth. I don't give the WTBTS credit for teaching me anything. Any truths that I have found, and any real help that I received have come from the Holy Spirit making things clear to me. The WT likes to claim that no one could have learned via Holy Spirit without their help. So if you were stranded on an island and a crate with a Bible washed ashore, you would be screwed unless some Watchtowers washed ashore every week. That is what they teach. If deliberate, that amounts to apostasy."

Data-Dog, I *LOVE* this! Very cool. Interesting thoughts. :)

69

Do You Believe In ANYTHING That The Witnesses Taught At This Point In Your Life?

by minimus in

jw
friends

for example, they pride themselves in what they don't believe such as immortal souls, the trinity, hellfire, etc.. some exjws still believe it is the "truth" and support the basics.. .

Muddy Waters

I believe their insistence on punctuality is a good thing. It still always surprises me when I go to what would be termed "worldy" venues or presentations, concerts, etc., that they almost never start on time!

22

The bible is a letter to the 144,000

by sosoconfused in

jw
friends

i don't really remember where i heard this... either at a public talk or a district convention or c.o.

visit or something.. .

my question is, has anyone else in there time with the org heard that said?

Muddy Waters

Yes, I have heard this as well - that the Bible was written specifically for the "144,000". The rest of us schmucks don't count.... unless we're in close association with the remnant of those 144,000 remaining on the earth today and doing their bidding and following their specific instructions to us as they mediate between us and God. *blah!!* Total ick. Total bullcrap.

9

Ugh. Attended a funeral recently at the KH...

by Muddy Waters in

i can't believe how horrid this experience was.

first, the thought of going into a kh again filled me with total anxiety and even nausea.. .

second, couldn't believe how much time it took to get ready to get there.

Muddy Waters

I can't believe how horrid this experience was. First, the thought of going into a KH again filled me with total anxiety and even nausea.

Second, couldn't believe how much time it took to get ready to get there. The whole dress-up thing... can't believe I used to do this 3 times a week!

And third, the awful KH experience itself. Since I'm in an "inactive" (read: faded) state, people will still talk to me, but I found their approach was really creepy and aggressive. It was like an INTERROGATION, full of questions to determine my "status" and activity (or not). Like, "Oh, how nice to see you! What KH are you in now? How is [spouse]? How are your kids? Are they going to meetings? Are they still in the truth?" Almost EVERY single JW that spoke with me was like this.

When I said, "Well, we're doing fine, we're all very happy. Haven't been to the meetings for a long time, though." It all changed. Their attitudes, expressions. One "brother" even looked dismayed and said, "Why aren't you going to meetings anymore? Do you want to DIE? Don't you want to LIVE??"

It was a really creepy experience, and the funeral talk was, of course, the standard outline (read: advertisement) for the Org.

The KH itself now reminds me of a funeral home. Sterile. No natural light or windows. The brothers standing at the entrance like bodyguards. The whole horrid atmosphere of control and regulated everything.

It was good to be out of there. It's good to be out, period.